No one walks away unascathed. @ Davis and Natasha: I think Hybels and Billy Graham lost their beliefs somewhere along the way. WHAT EVIDENCE? These have what I think are some significant parallels from which to consider some larger patterns. 4 unwanted extended hugs (thats including Nancy Ortbergs latest revelation). 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. I do wonder what the men exchanging holy kisses in bible times did for their brains. And Charisma House/new Mark Driscoll book . I have already commented on that nonsense that just went up. https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2018/04/12/resource-bibliography-on-willow-creek-church-situation-and-bill-hybels-reported-misconduct/. We were in both places for years and said little or nothing. Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Maybe He is cleaning house. . Because saving his legacy saves Willow Creek. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? It would seem somewhat of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no? Same play book. I am terribly concerned that there is game playing going on here by people who cannot accept that Bill Hybels has resigned and he did so believe there are problems that people cannot accept. A high five or handshake can do the same. Like the invitation sent out to for the Family Meetings, and the actual meetings themselves. has been proclaimed against the Devil and his Witches. http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/. Who is the current pastor of Willow Creek Church? The elder board and staff who enabled him are equally bad. If we do that, whether it is an elderly shut in praying for her friends and family in solitude or a person such as Peter standing in front of thousands, so long as we do whatever the Lord asks, that is a great work. Anyone questioning the purpose of this blog should realize that when churches and relgious leaders put themselves out there accountabilty comes with that publicity. to this, the source of detailed information about the 1,000+ unreadable emails and Bill Hybels policy of not having email messages archived and his explanation of why comes from the initial Chicago Tribune article. Peoples boundaries and privacy should never be breached unless specifically invited or welcomed to do so one way or the other. Hybels has been open regarding his professional career but does not share any information about his personal life. But the church's growth also took a professional and personal toll on Hybels, who had married his. 40 years of it. I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in ScriptureDo not be the disciple with the sword. Like you, quite a few of us have spent years studying it deeply. He was talking about how successful Sociopaths and Swindlers and Abusers are masters of Camouflage (and Misdirection)! Read Paul on Mars hill. My wife worked for a Fortune 500 and did grad work in the hard sciences, she taught for a Pac12 university, I have taught law in higher ed for 15 years. These people have patience for the long con. Is that structure really the best way to know Christ? Ortberg actually does have a chance to step up and be the bigger man here. We are not gullible fools. Alcohol made me do it (Perry Nobel) As this onion is being peeled back, it really gives us an insight into life at the top tier of a megachurch. Nothing is 100% safe but these wrk pretty well. Some people stay quiet for too long, even good people. Other WCC members are posting this letter on fb. You searched for: Author: lynne hybels bill I know this because I have experienced it myself. @ Lea: People will walk away from Jesus Christ because Billy Hybels is not who they thought he was? Sexual predation is not based on *wanting to have sex. Even as red flag after red flag goes up, we push them aside (btw, I now view red flags as the Holy Spirit calling out Warning, this needs careful thought.). How many do you want, Brad? Go back to JBs April 16 comment. Leave the tabulations to the guy with the higher pay grade. Mahaney books. That length is reserved for the husband/wife relationship, comforting someone, or greeting someone close whom you havent seen in a long time. Do you believe it is someone posing as her, or do you think she is in on it? But telling someone immediately might be crucial in the future. I agree/support the various responses to Brad Brucker. Such a horror of more revictimization. But at church with people you see week after week? The retiring pastor calls it all collusion and lies. I saw this in mega churches and just about every secular organization I was in. @ Davis and Natasha: I think people also need to read-jodiewalle.com/openletterto johnortbergwho was also accused of much the same thing-be careful of the stones you throw-and also be careful of how you judge anything. Oh, absolutely. Shameful! HE GOT AWAY WITH IT, SO CAN I! If youre interested in seeing whether I qualify, you can check out my main blog to see what I write about. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. @ AbuseCrusher: We cant imagine the immensity of it all. normal life stuff. I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. I dont know what mainstream is for this topic. Its amazing how many believers will interpret the metaphor of fruit differently, for example. Maybe Im misinterpreting. If you want to highlight, in every comment, this is not your blog. why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? No. Thanks Erp that is *very* helpful information! Peter was upset. So much emphasis on good works at home & abroad, what about treating your brothers & sisters in leadership with respect that comes from a relationship w/ Christ. This has not only damaged women but also affected men, like my husband, who looked up to Bill Hybels as a positive role model. I have heard sermons on the side hug. I do, however, see how the dastardly could try and use the physical emotional responses to size up or groom a potential victim. She thanks you too. Bill Hybels confessed a few years ago that WC had made a mistake by not encouraging church members to read their Bibles and mature spiritually. Ive been to Ephesus and it is just a tourist destination. Interesting how you get it, but those in high places do not. The Elders reviewed none for content. And conveniently you are dismissing the affair. That attitude was a LOT more prevalent than people think. It would take only one cracker to spill all that confidential information to the world (or one thief of the pastors unencrypted computer). Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. I will keep the website updated. It is now obvious to me why Ortberg not only believed the accounts of the other victims but why she advocated for them. In my 9 years of writing a blog which deals with abuse issues, I have been deeply upset by the responses of Christians when their celebrity church or pastor have been shown to have clay feet. Its a good time to focus on Jesus, not on any leader, which is misguided faith in the first place. I believe the accusers in this case especially since you corroborate that they knew the difference in a hug and a hug. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? We would have food, beverages, snacks, etc. Bill Hybels Family. You would think that wannabe preacher boys would be warned off of that in seminary. It was alleged in an article of 'Chicago Tribune.' Further, the Chicago Tribune and Christianity Today too reported allegations about his misconduct. So many perps being exposed it looks like the Lord is behind the exposure. I cannot imagine the pressure that your sister is experiencing. Ok, gotcha. Give me the bellicose jerks any time. That is hard to deal with. I was contemplating a megachurch model the other day where teaching pastors had term limits or rotating speakers. The kids tried to sue the board to no avail. All that to say, once these people leave WCC they realize the atmosphere there was not right, and yes this would include John Ortberg as well. @ Bea: That this has to be explained in The Church is unbelievable. I have recently become Lutheran. Hugging spouse and kids a lot is good. I would posit that there are at least two types of sexual abusers, and it appears that the narcissists seeking to traumatize people into submission outnumber those who act out irresistible urges. Yet Ive made my point. Whatever it is, its wrong-headed. If they were sent and stored in a encrypted format, then you would need the key to open them and read them. Of course, if theres some hidden motive of those speaking out, thats one thing, but as has been said, this is all in the process of getting out after many questions have been raised about what was or wasnt done with previous accountability procedures (emails, board meetings, etc.). 20 years later Ive served in ministry as well as a school administrator for small and very large public high schools. (Big clue there, folks) And people will do that by making the others, worse. Married: Spouse: Lynne Hybels (m. 1974) Son/Daughter: Yes (Shauna Niequist and Todd Hybels) Earning: $95,000 . There is a reason that big names get away with so much. I am going to ask a hard question. But it is even harder when those left behind form a militia to hunt down and fire at anyone who dares to question the paradigm. But I have not noticed any hugging at the hospital or at any doctors or dentists office. The contents might be encrypted, and, if a key used to decrypt them is lost (or not handed over), they arent readable. @ truthseeker00: And those who go on to attack the victims are generally clueless as to what the bible actually teaches. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. Ok. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. I definitely have pictures of my cat as a kid dressed up in doll clothes looking not super happy. And few of us agree on every point! This includes a majority Christian circle. You want to know the lack of leadership moment that really stood out to me in Hybels own words? Including the Ortbergs. I have to think, absolutely have to think, that a courageous leader sure wouldve done things differently in the last month, whether Hybels is totally clean and all of these women leaders in the church and old friends of Bill are part of a vast conspiracy to destroy Bill Hybels, the righteous man, or if Hybels is dirty and all along was an abusive sociopath and terminal liar. Women get to decide if they want to be touched or not, and oh he did not mean anything by should never even have to be brought into play-in the workplace. According to another account, Hybels allegedly engaged in oral sex with his former assistant. But worse. This one is so true. The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. So thats why I was interested in this concept. How many times do you think it needs to be posted? This is Uncharted Territory for them. It alarmed me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels' unwanted attention and actions. What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus meant when he wrote For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light? plus Ive read very wise authors like: Don Hennessy an relationship counselor in Ireland who has worked for decades in the field of domestic abuse. I am an infrequent commenter here, but have been following the WW for years. Enough is enough. Ok whats wrong with this picture?? Jesus was a grand act to follow, and the disciples did it right. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FLT3Cb96-Mk. The beast must be fed. I understand why comments are moderated Im not criticizing. And yes I tend to paint with a broad brush because the structures and systems involved demand it. Good grief, until this minute I had no idea there was such a thing as a hug culture. Or your friends husband. BTW, one of the drawbacks with the current format is we dont even see recent comments from older threads. So, why were Hybels emails so important that they had to be deleted? Number of accusations (so far) Yes, there is a hug/cuddle culture that has science backing it. Recently posted by the Chicago Tribune, which has tracked this story since breaking it in March: Two publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations.. Hybels used Yahweh (God) for his own desires and celebrity. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. Same story we keep hearing again and again. In a calm. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. Wow!!! Without gossip and people looking out, anyone who has been hurt by church/leadership will simply be driven out, and the whole thing covered up. Ok. if this was mishandled, was else has been mishandled? No one wants to think their pastor is being inappropriate, so your brain just dismisses it. Its not great for innovation. Theres theory, and then practise. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in Scripture. They called people out who were lying, as well as inappropriate practices in the churches.]. Willow Creek Community Church initially started as a high school ministry but grew over time to become one of the biggest Churches in the United . Only those who walk in darkness need to hide what they are doing. I actually thought it was funny. By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned Jesus Matthew 12:37. Davids repentance was a magnificent example of repentance. Im a pastor and a survivor of emotional/verbal abuse (in a relationship, not in a church), and I can tell you that one of the biggest reasons I stayed as long as I did was because I was convinced that I didnt deserve better, I made my own bed and had to sleep in it, and that what I got was as good as I could ever hope for. Ive known Sociopaths who could look you right in the eye and Lie with total open-eyed, butter-wouldnt-melt-in-their-mouth Sincerity. At what point will Heather Lawson realize that Willow Creek needs to over? @ Davis and Natasha: . And jet setting. And thats how you end up with an entire institution being transformed in a little over two decades. This easy-to-follow guide for enjoying a happy, healthy, and lifelong relationship includes . Leaders who walk in the dark are not representing Jesus but rather the same Devil the original Pharisees did. .just a minor point of information. As much as many hate reformed doctrine, there is much less of this particular error. God is a title. Do you want to know about Bill Hybels. B wrote: Your comments prove your ignorance and arrogance. Updated | Rev. What is the Body of Christ? It alarmed me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels unwanted attention and actions. It is the Spirits job to convict and change. Seems like a lot of marriages in and around WCC have some awful secrets. That ill advised letter by Jodi is one example. Its the whole structure of the godly pastor on stage week after week. Its harder to sweep things under the rug when internet on-lookers are looking under rugs 24-7. kwim, dees? I dont want to think poorly of John Ortberg too. I think people are starting to realize that even if someone starts out with good intentions, when they get power and money, they tend to be corrupted. When you read it, I think you might as well. Brads comments only serve to make me wonder how many people worship Hybels instead of God. 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. These things seem like nitpicking until you have more information. Rather, I think it is their twisted view of both God and humanity. And he could also use the Ambien thing to slander Vonda if she publicly complained about the way he had treated her that night. @ Davis and Natasha: IF NOTHINGS DOCUMENTED, IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. Judging Others He could claim she was taking advantage of him (poor man) because she knew that after taking Ambien he might not be possessed of his full faculties for the rest of the night. Come Lord Jesus! Often, it is only after literally hundreds of these red flags have piled up and someone else mentions that they have this problem with something pastor said or did, that we finally go, What have I done? Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. And its worse for Christian rocks stars, because nobody spiritualizes your regular rock band, and expects them to be perfect. Open Discussion Page. So done. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. Wild!!! The CIA is able to protect their emails as well. Try to respond like Jesus might and you will be let through. @ Barbara Roberts: Take look at what Paul says about this immoral situation. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. All the retreats, big brother making sure you attend mid week activities (I know of some megas that were playing around with a card swipe for staff to make sure they were attending services and staying), the need to be cool, your personal assistants doing your clothes shopping, etc, etc. Just listening to Hybels extol the leadership virtues of Heather Lawson (another blonde) was enough to make me wonder, Is anyone else hearing and seeing this? His own wife (Lynne) is very different from the women Hybels mentored. And I never understood why Hybels did not step down when his wife (Lynne) had a HUGE crisis of faith. How can you say to your brother, Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye, when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? And everyone wants to work there. As a victim-advocate and blogger, I feel isolated because of my time zone. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. I was in the bath and my roommate answered the phone. At TWW, comments become a place of learning and exposure. Is this a ruse to further that idea? If there is a 40 year pattern of behaviors, it doesnt matter. Really? I dont think he deserved that. Nor will Christians abandon their faith en masse over this. Just wonderin. Soon as your back was turned, the mask flipped off like a light switch and there was only the contempt of the Predator gloating over the stupidity of his Prey. Dont jump to quickly to the question, How could an honest, intelligent person not have seen what was happening under his or her nose for years?. The Eurythmics. Too many missed opportunities to do the right thing. Try finding a church now that sings traditional hymns or doesnt use projectors and worship teams. She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. You will eventually find like minded people. teaching other churches how to impliment the Williow Creek model. My former abusive, cultish and abuser-friendly church was positively obsessed with unity. The pastor preached on it continually. And my understanding is that it applies to both criminal cases and civil lawsuits, and in any regulatory actions (like IRS or state Attorney General investigations of corporations). Do it on your personal, not work, email. So much! 1 comment about arms AT BEST its the Tu Quoque logical fallacy. You summed up my whole opinion of this mess. You know, Bill Hybels for two decades or more promoted himself as the one with a system that would revolutionize the church and make it relevant. . I also think if its true, it minimizes his and his wifes ability to legitimately point the finger at others, and the impact of their words, and that is very unfortunate. Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Pingback: Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy. This is a crucial part of dealing with horrors of abuse. However, for people like those profiled on this site who have fallen short in protecting those under their charge (say, by covering ups their own misdeeds and/or crimes or those of others) to reemerge in a place where they again wish to wield spiritual authority (by starting another ministry (sic) in which they assume spiritual leadership or selling books advising sheep on spiritual matters seeking funding from said sheep in each case) is massively troubling. Pew sitters paid for these seminars What they are doing is exactly what someone who has been there would expect them to do. And some people here are calling your guru to account for apparently not being obedient at all, for being a fraud, a hypocrite. We are all sinners and we all fail. We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. I pity you if thats the case. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? WITCHES! The elders at Willow Creek Community Church tonight sent an email to congregants, stating that the church is "heartbroken" over the "abuse" of a congregant. Statement removes all doubt, in my opinion, regarding serious sexual sin and leadership issues at Willow Creek Community Church as it comes to Bill Hybels. Wow. At least you know what they are upfront . (ed deleted link). When was the last time you led someone to Jesus? Refuse to settle for eloquent lechers. Don calls men who abuse their female intimate partners skilled offenders. I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions, Only in Christianese One-Upmanship My Piles Bigger Than Yours!. Why it was Bill Hybels! FWIW, Id love the notification option tooI have the opposite problem as Barb. And Im 49, a loudmouth, professionally trained in safeguarding& so on. In the book, Turn the Ship Around David Marquet writes: Leadership should mean giving control rather than taking control and creating leaders rather than forging followers. Power is at the top but information is with the hands-on bottom levels of a hierarchy. he has no idea who well you know Scripture. The Church is built on Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit, not on them. Once, while Mr. Hybels's wife, Lynne, and their children were away, the pastor took Ms. Baranowski out for dinner. Thanks, Barbara, for your outstanding work. On Tuesday, Illinois megachurch pastor Bill Hybels announced that he's resigning amid sexual-misconduct allegations made by church members and employees. No wonder you have no qualms about slamming the Church, the bride of Christ. If you ever get the chance find the book, Corporate Cults. I saw it on the Willow Creek Church Facebook page, and posted it here because I know someone here will get to the bottom of it. We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. Youre not alone Lyds. The church is doing fine. As it says in the bible, Who are we to judge? Willow Creek's stature in the Christian community may have also helped Lynne Hybels, Bill's wife. @ okrapod: Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. I could go on and one, but my point is that serial abusers are very, very clever. Does Bill Hybels teach pastors how to get more friendly with his staff, but keep it under raps? In a Facebook post shared over the weekend, a church member accused Dr. B. of kissing, fondling, and pressuring her with sex between 1984 and 1988. Our job is to sow seeds. OK. Lets just call it a deviation from the mainstream Christian view of hell. I do not believe Jesus would have ever behaved the way you and John are acting. Testimony of victims and witnesses is not gossip. In April 2018, when Bill Hybels' scandal got out, John Ortberg turned on his former master . I mean, most say they want the truth. Together, they have two children, a son by the name of Todd Hybels and a daughter Shauna Niequist. Did we demand transparency? I am thankful for the hard work Bill Hybels and his family have done. And it still doesnt negate what Bill Hybels did, even if it were to be true. Every dept, every spin off ministry, with line item salaries. Good point. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. Every believer has a unique calling. Invited women to their hotel rooms And influence a few. Thats all the ambien defense is too. https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2018/03/01/for-professionals-who-work-in-domesic-abuse-dv/. However, just noticed a mega the founding family kids were using as their cash cow, followed by sexual indiscretions. How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. What needs to be addressed is that this is not a matter of somehow eliminating the existence of random perverts, as if such a thing were possible. They think theyve stopped it. 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. Who would I tell? The next time you make a blanket statement about what the Bible says, pause, think about it, Google and find some help for these difficult concepts. Later I did not know how or who to talk to and began to second-guess and doubt myself as to its significance; that is, until years later when I began to hear stories of other similar encounters. I cannot imagine the pain, the hurt. * Scripture does not discuss it that way. Read the books and follow the formula. its definitely legit and very well written. So Im now wondering. 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